Post by Adam B on Jul 19, 2005 10:02:35 GMT -5
Saul Williams Interview
by Adam Bernard
He’s one of the most accomplished poets of his generation. He’s written books, been published in numerous newspapers and appeared in television and film. So why does Saul Williams have rock star next on his list of goals? On his self titled album Williams lets his soul hang out about everything from his insecurities as a youth to his thoughts on Hip-Hop, but unlike a typical spoken word artist Williams’ production is equally as intense as his lyrics. The final product sounds like a mixture of Jimi Hendrix and Tupac Shakur and is due to bend some minds. Williams recently sat down with us to speak about the album, where Hip-Hop is headed, and Halle Berry. The most interesting thing of all, however, is that the image of the angry man some people assume him to be is completely backwards.
Adam Bernard: You’ve written books, been published everywhere, been on television, been in films...
Saul Williams: And I’m still not a millionaire! (Laughs)
AB: Well, other than that, what made you want to do an album?
SW: Man I’m so happy that I’m able to put this album out. When I’m not busy writing poetry and tryin to scrape my emotional insides to define whatever is left to write I turn to music pretty much as a release, to have fun, and so it turned out that I felt that this was the most representative of me, this music thing, for the time being and I guess I wanted to do it. It’s not that I wanted to do it I had no choice it’s what I had to do.
AB: I notice the album has no title, it’s simply “Saul Williams.” Why did you decide to make it self titled?
SW: I was talked into it and I agreed to it because it just made a lot of sense I was struggling with titles and it was said to me “I don’t think you can do anything stronger than letting it be self titled.” This was before I finished the album and I said to myself “wow now I have to really make sure the album represents me.” Titles are sometimes excuses or something to hide behind and I didn’t want to hide behind anything.
AB: When people think spoken word a lot of the time they get visions of coffee houses and people snapping their fingers. Your beats, however, would blow the roof off of most places like that. What went into the decision to have such intense production?
SW: Me. I was by no means trying to do a spoken word album, when I do a spoken word album it'll be just that, a spoken word album. I approached the music as a musician, whether it’s in the song writing sense or in the lyric writing sense. I didn't feel tied to the poetry in the sense of “I have to recite a poem over this.” That’s the difference between this album and the last album, the last was about poetry over beats and this is about the songs.
AB: I absolutely love the track “Black Stacey.” You reveal a lot about yourself then basically demand the same from other artists. Why do you think that artists today are so quick to hide who they really are?
SW: I don’t now, I wasn’t really talking about all these other artists, I was pretty much addressing the Hip-Hop world only because I think that a lot of times we take on these personas, these MC names, this hard grimace and it becomes us, and I even watched it happen with me. Interestingly I think the images that are out there of me are of this angry guy and I’m so far from angry, I’m never angry. I’m only angry when a movie or a song makes me angry then I put it in a poem and then that’s it. For the most part I’m very seldom angry. Go flip through any Rolling Stone or any music magazine and look at the photos of artists and look at their expression. I mean I’m guilty of it too. It’s not me, it’s a part of me, but most of my friends know me as a silly guy. If we’re going to say keep it real in this art form than you might as well do this and I couldn't think of anything more real to me than the thing that created the biggest insecurity in my life, the complexion issues. It’s important for me to be self-revealing, you can’t be willing to point the finger at somebody else if you aren’t willing to point it at yourself.
AB: You also have some strong words on “African Student Movement,” what do you think Bill Cosby would say if he heard it?
SW: Actually, that song is inspired by R Kelly.
AB: What?
SW: That song was inspired by R.Kelly in the sense that I was in the car flippin through stations and I heard some song of his and the beat was so dope and I was like “f**k I gotta listen to this song.” And I hated myself for loving this song. I went home, made a beat and that’s what came out. As I was writing, there was a point where I stopped and started writing and I got really interested in using the word Nigga and all the different connotations of the word and the purpose of the song was to raise discussion. I’m sure some people are like “why is he using the word so much,” while there others who won’t think twice about it. I personally have no real take on it, it’s kinda to encourage people to take their own take on it. So if me and Bill Cosby were to sit down and discuss the song I have no idea what he’d say but I’d be open to hearin him.
AB: We’ve already touched on this a bit, but let’s continue to discuss Hip-Hop, which you talk about on multiple tracks on the album, including “Grippo.” What do you think of the direction it’s headed in?
SW: I’d say I’m not angry about it. I think that it’s heading in a positive direction, actually. The fact of the matter is MTV and Hot97 and all the urban stations do not actually determine the direction Hip-Hop is heading, as Mos said on his album, we determine, the people determine, where it is heading. The same way people decided Outkast’s album would be album of the year, and that was brilliant. And it was so far left most Hip-Hop kids wouldn’t even be able to go that route. But where is it heading, hopefully towards a more balanced perspective. I grew up in the ghetto, amongst drug dealers, guns, violence, shoot outs and all sorts of craziness, ghettos don’t only produce thugs, they produce the likes of me as well so I’m just interested if we’re gonna keep it real then just show the balance because there’s a lot of people like me from f**ked up environments. There are a million ways we can perpetuate it.
AB: What do you mean when you say “I want to show you what the stars are made of?”
SW: When I say “I want to show you what the stars are made of” I’m saying let’s focus on the essence of things. I wrote that songs when I wan in Wisconsin while I was watching two white rap groups perform that are f**king amazing. One of the reasons was that they weren’t acting black, they were being themselves. They substituted the anger and oppression with this sense of guilt and depression and I cracked up and enjoyed the show. Like Black Stacey to some is a very sad moving song and it is in the sense that it’s personal but to me it’s hilarious, it’s the most absurd opening line ever.
AB: In a perfect world, other than your already established fan base, who would you want your album to reach?
SW: 14 year olds. It’s the perfect age, their potential is there. I’ve been spending the last year and a half touring with primarily rock cats. I was opening up for System of a Down, and this Sunday I’m about to open up for Nas. My mission is to fuse worlds, to bring as many worlds together, the same way you can hear all those different worlds on the album musically. I believe that’s my purpose period, to fuse the world.
AB: You wrote up a “Pledge of Resistance” against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Pledge ended up everywhere, including in some of the biggest papers in the world, and was signed by numerous Hollywood celebrities. SW: When you created it did you ever foresee that kind of support for it?
It’s the Statement of Conscience that most people signed, but I wouldn't even say I wrote the Pledge of Resistance, the people wrote it. Who the f**k wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, the people wrote it. I was a part of the creation of it, yeah. When I was approached right after 9/11, when I was working on that with other people I felt like we were drafting a new republic, I felt like we were writing a new constitution, it felt very important.
AB: Tell me about your latest film endeavor, “Lackwanna Blues,” what’s the premise behind it?
SW: That’s for HBO, it’s directed by George Wolfe, he’s been runnin the public theater here for the past decade and this is his first film that he’s directing and it’s produced by Halle Berry. It’s about a boarding house in upstate New York in the mid 60’s before integration really strikes hard. It’s about this woman who takes care of people. It will probably come out about Thanksgiving, it’s a great film to watch around Thanksgiving.
AB: Halle Berry produced the film, and I was gonna hold back on this, but I gotta know since I haven’t met her, how extra fine is Halle Berry in person?
SW: I haven’t met her, she wasn’t there, she was shooting a film while we were doing it. She was supposed to be in it initially and I was like “oh boy,” but I have met Sade and she is beautiful.
AB: So is there anything else we should know about you?
SW: My girlfriend says I’m a good kisser. (Laughs) I think that really the more comfortable I become in the public eye the more comedic I’ll become, I think it’s my insecurities that make me project this hardcore version of me all the time. But then again music is the place that I go to to release that kind of anxiety. There are actual love songs that didn’t make this album.
by Adam Bernard
He’s one of the most accomplished poets of his generation. He’s written books, been published in numerous newspapers and appeared in television and film. So why does Saul Williams have rock star next on his list of goals? On his self titled album Williams lets his soul hang out about everything from his insecurities as a youth to his thoughts on Hip-Hop, but unlike a typical spoken word artist Williams’ production is equally as intense as his lyrics. The final product sounds like a mixture of Jimi Hendrix and Tupac Shakur and is due to bend some minds. Williams recently sat down with us to speak about the album, where Hip-Hop is headed, and Halle Berry. The most interesting thing of all, however, is that the image of the angry man some people assume him to be is completely backwards.
Adam Bernard: You’ve written books, been published everywhere, been on television, been in films...
Saul Williams: And I’m still not a millionaire! (Laughs)
AB: Well, other than that, what made you want to do an album?
SW: Man I’m so happy that I’m able to put this album out. When I’m not busy writing poetry and tryin to scrape my emotional insides to define whatever is left to write I turn to music pretty much as a release, to have fun, and so it turned out that I felt that this was the most representative of me, this music thing, for the time being and I guess I wanted to do it. It’s not that I wanted to do it I had no choice it’s what I had to do.
AB: I notice the album has no title, it’s simply “Saul Williams.” Why did you decide to make it self titled?
SW: I was talked into it and I agreed to it because it just made a lot of sense I was struggling with titles and it was said to me “I don’t think you can do anything stronger than letting it be self titled.” This was before I finished the album and I said to myself “wow now I have to really make sure the album represents me.” Titles are sometimes excuses or something to hide behind and I didn’t want to hide behind anything.
AB: When people think spoken word a lot of the time they get visions of coffee houses and people snapping their fingers. Your beats, however, would blow the roof off of most places like that. What went into the decision to have such intense production?
SW: Me. I was by no means trying to do a spoken word album, when I do a spoken word album it'll be just that, a spoken word album. I approached the music as a musician, whether it’s in the song writing sense or in the lyric writing sense. I didn't feel tied to the poetry in the sense of “I have to recite a poem over this.” That’s the difference between this album and the last album, the last was about poetry over beats and this is about the songs.
AB: I absolutely love the track “Black Stacey.” You reveal a lot about yourself then basically demand the same from other artists. Why do you think that artists today are so quick to hide who they really are?
SW: I don’t now, I wasn’t really talking about all these other artists, I was pretty much addressing the Hip-Hop world only because I think that a lot of times we take on these personas, these MC names, this hard grimace and it becomes us, and I even watched it happen with me. Interestingly I think the images that are out there of me are of this angry guy and I’m so far from angry, I’m never angry. I’m only angry when a movie or a song makes me angry then I put it in a poem and then that’s it. For the most part I’m very seldom angry. Go flip through any Rolling Stone or any music magazine and look at the photos of artists and look at their expression. I mean I’m guilty of it too. It’s not me, it’s a part of me, but most of my friends know me as a silly guy. If we’re going to say keep it real in this art form than you might as well do this and I couldn't think of anything more real to me than the thing that created the biggest insecurity in my life, the complexion issues. It’s important for me to be self-revealing, you can’t be willing to point the finger at somebody else if you aren’t willing to point it at yourself.
AB: You also have some strong words on “African Student Movement,” what do you think Bill Cosby would say if he heard it?
SW: Actually, that song is inspired by R Kelly.
AB: What?
SW: That song was inspired by R.Kelly in the sense that I was in the car flippin through stations and I heard some song of his and the beat was so dope and I was like “f**k I gotta listen to this song.” And I hated myself for loving this song. I went home, made a beat and that’s what came out. As I was writing, there was a point where I stopped and started writing and I got really interested in using the word Nigga and all the different connotations of the word and the purpose of the song was to raise discussion. I’m sure some people are like “why is he using the word so much,” while there others who won’t think twice about it. I personally have no real take on it, it’s kinda to encourage people to take their own take on it. So if me and Bill Cosby were to sit down and discuss the song I have no idea what he’d say but I’d be open to hearin him.
AB: We’ve already touched on this a bit, but let’s continue to discuss Hip-Hop, which you talk about on multiple tracks on the album, including “Grippo.” What do you think of the direction it’s headed in?
SW: I’d say I’m not angry about it. I think that it’s heading in a positive direction, actually. The fact of the matter is MTV and Hot97 and all the urban stations do not actually determine the direction Hip-Hop is heading, as Mos said on his album, we determine, the people determine, where it is heading. The same way people decided Outkast’s album would be album of the year, and that was brilliant. And it was so far left most Hip-Hop kids wouldn’t even be able to go that route. But where is it heading, hopefully towards a more balanced perspective. I grew up in the ghetto, amongst drug dealers, guns, violence, shoot outs and all sorts of craziness, ghettos don’t only produce thugs, they produce the likes of me as well so I’m just interested if we’re gonna keep it real then just show the balance because there’s a lot of people like me from f**ked up environments. There are a million ways we can perpetuate it.
AB: What do you mean when you say “I want to show you what the stars are made of?”
SW: When I say “I want to show you what the stars are made of” I’m saying let’s focus on the essence of things. I wrote that songs when I wan in Wisconsin while I was watching two white rap groups perform that are f**king amazing. One of the reasons was that they weren’t acting black, they were being themselves. They substituted the anger and oppression with this sense of guilt and depression and I cracked up and enjoyed the show. Like Black Stacey to some is a very sad moving song and it is in the sense that it’s personal but to me it’s hilarious, it’s the most absurd opening line ever.
AB: In a perfect world, other than your already established fan base, who would you want your album to reach?
SW: 14 year olds. It’s the perfect age, their potential is there. I’ve been spending the last year and a half touring with primarily rock cats. I was opening up for System of a Down, and this Sunday I’m about to open up for Nas. My mission is to fuse worlds, to bring as many worlds together, the same way you can hear all those different worlds on the album musically. I believe that’s my purpose period, to fuse the world.
AB: You wrote up a “Pledge of Resistance” against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Pledge ended up everywhere, including in some of the biggest papers in the world, and was signed by numerous Hollywood celebrities. SW: When you created it did you ever foresee that kind of support for it?
It’s the Statement of Conscience that most people signed, but I wouldn't even say I wrote the Pledge of Resistance, the people wrote it. Who the f**k wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, the people wrote it. I was a part of the creation of it, yeah. When I was approached right after 9/11, when I was working on that with other people I felt like we were drafting a new republic, I felt like we were writing a new constitution, it felt very important.
AB: Tell me about your latest film endeavor, “Lackwanna Blues,” what’s the premise behind it?
SW: That’s for HBO, it’s directed by George Wolfe, he’s been runnin the public theater here for the past decade and this is his first film that he’s directing and it’s produced by Halle Berry. It’s about a boarding house in upstate New York in the mid 60’s before integration really strikes hard. It’s about this woman who takes care of people. It will probably come out about Thanksgiving, it’s a great film to watch around Thanksgiving.
AB: Halle Berry produced the film, and I was gonna hold back on this, but I gotta know since I haven’t met her, how extra fine is Halle Berry in person?
SW: I haven’t met her, she wasn’t there, she was shooting a film while we were doing it. She was supposed to be in it initially and I was like “oh boy,” but I have met Sade and she is beautiful.
AB: So is there anything else we should know about you?
SW: My girlfriend says I’m a good kisser. (Laughs) I think that really the more comfortable I become in the public eye the more comedic I’ll become, I think it’s my insecurities that make me project this hardcore version of me all the time. But then again music is the place that I go to to release that kind of anxiety. There are actual love songs that didn’t make this album.